Some issues I found as outsider person #7

New Issue

humann · 2020-10-23T21:12:41Z

humann commented

2020-10-23 21:12:41 +00:00

Don't know how far you are so I might say things you'd already planned to do.
Kind of writing down what I'm thinking as I'm trying to understand the site. Really hope it's helpful. I played around on there for a while, trying to see what everything does.

I sort of expected a bar at the top wit options, it's just got a login button. (Not a problem but goes against expectations)
When I click the word 'news' or the indy-typewriter, I get sent to a page where I can add notes and stuff, it's not immediately clear what to do there. (later becomes clear after signing in, it clicked that those are features for logged in people)
It's not really clear why I'd want to sing up, for just reading new it doesn't seem necessary. (I did and it's giving me nice options)
When liking or repeating something I get logged out.
When bookmarking it appears under saved (why are these different words?)
When logged in, clicking an article on the right 'newswire' bar there's no option to go back (so I use the browser back button).
Also getting logged out when clicking this big indy-typewriter icon on the page where I can add notes and follow and stuff.

On my profile page

The skills button seem interesting, a nice feature, but I can't add anything. I saw you can also search for skills or people with skills. Just want to say I love this feature.
Lost where I can access the profile page for a bit after getting off it.
Found it again hidden behind that banner thing at the top, perhaps a button for that?

In general navigating the site confuses me sometimes. Example: clicking the month in the calendar brings me to my inbox.

I try to follow news@indymedia.openworlds.info but that doesn't stick.

Posted something from the Dutch indymedia as a public post, it is appearing on my profile, but not on a public feed. So this would presumably only go to people who follow me?

Don't know how far you are so I might say things you'd already planned to do. Kind of writing down what I'm thinking as I'm trying to understand the site. Really hope it's helpful. I played around on there for a while, trying to see what everything does. - I sort of expected a bar at the top wit options, it's just got a login button. (Not a problem but goes against expectations) - When I click the word 'news' or the indy-typewriter, I get sent to a page where I can add notes and stuff, it's not immediately clear what to do there. (later becomes clear after signing in, it clicked that those are features for logged in people) - It's not really clear why I'd want to sing up, for just reading new it doesn't seem necessary. (I did and it's giving me nice options) - When liking or repeating something I get logged out. - When bookmarking it appears under saved (why are these different words?) - When logged in, clicking an article on the right 'newswire' bar there's no option to go back (so I use the browser back button). - Also getting logged out when clicking this big indy-typewriter icon on the page where I can add notes and follow and stuff. On my profile page - The skills button seem interesting, a nice feature, but I can't add anything. I saw you can also search for skills or people with skills. Just want to say I love this feature. - Lost where I can access the profile page for a bit after getting off it. - Found it again hidden behind that banner thing at the top, perhaps a button for that? In general navigating the site confuses me sometimes. Example: clicking the month in the calendar brings me to my inbox. I try to follow news@indymedia.openworlds.info but that doesn't stick. Posted something from the Dutch indymedia as a public post, it is appearing on my profile, but not on a public feed. So this would presumably only go to people who follow me?

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mj-saunders commented

2020-10-24 06:18:02 +00:00

This is really great feedback. Thanks for taking the time.

One thing I can mention regarding being "not clear why (someone would) want to sign up" - we are still discussing the best default approach.

If I'm not mistaken, generally the site would be for reading without signing up.
Moderators and Admins would of course have accounts, and they would be core members of the IMC (those who run and manage the instance).

I'm not set in my mind yet as to who a general "User" might be.

This is really great feedback. Thanks for taking the time. One thing I can mention regarding being "not clear why (someone would) want to sign up" - we are still discussing the best default approach. If I'm not mistaken, generally the site would be for reading without signing up. Moderators and Admins would of course have accounts, and they would be core members of the IMC (those who run and manage the instance). I'm not set in my mind yet as to who a general "User" might be.

hamishcampbell commented

2020-10-24 08:27:25 +00:00

Yep - acterly we need to think about what is the role of login. as this is a "newspaper" were in theory you read and comment in external sites most of the time. Aggregation needs clear and consistent UX to not be confusing. I have some posts on this on my blog from way back will find them.

Yep, more is less in UX how to core the experiences down to a simple KISS level without disempowering the reader/producer is a hard thing that we have to really concentrate on.

Yep, with activertypub the lack of a single login across sites is a block on KISS rollout - identity is complex.

That sounds like a bug, and then a UI issue.

We need to think more about this behavior, as an aggreater the links on the newswire should go directly to the source - that is the external site if the link is from outside. It's the ethical path but it is also the confusing path, need to think about UX here.

yep, the whole what is an activertypub acter needs thinking - am coming to the conclusion that as a group news site the site itself is the activertypubacter. Then what are the user accounts?

Yep - acterly we need to think about what is the role of login. as this is a "newspaper" were in theory you read and comment in external sites most of the time. Aggregation needs clear and consistent UX to not be confusing. I have some posts on this on my blog from way back will find them. Yep, more is less in UX how to core the experiences down to a simple KISS level without disempowering the reader/producer is a hard thing that we have to really concentrate on. Yep, with activertypub the lack of a single login across sites is a block on KISS rollout - identity is complex. That sounds like a bug, and then a UI issue. We need to think more about this behavior, as an aggreater the links on the newswire should go directly to the source - that is the external site if the link is from outside. It's the ethical path but it is also the confusing path, need to think about UX here. yep, the whole what is an activertypub acter needs thinking - am coming to the conclusion that as a group news site the site itself is the activertypubacter. Then what are the user accounts?

mj-saunders commented

2020-10-24 09:58:51 +00:00

Can we clearly define the use-case for a "user" login - as opposed to a moderator or admin - with regard to epicyon as an IMC publishing tool?

Obviously here, I am focussing on providing tools for IMC's specifically.
How much are we initially focussing on IMC's or other use-cases for the test rollout?

Single logins are being worked on in the ActivityPub / OpenID communities I believe - so we'll just have to wait and see there.

Regarding Source

Looking at ActivityPub Objects, it appears that we can add extra "context".

If something already doesn't exist for this, perhaps we start using and encourage the use of an "Original Source", such that no matter what any one adds (tags, etc) through the pipeline, there is always a direct link back to the source, without it having to be in any "message" text.

### Regarding Login Can we clearly define the use-case for a "user" login - as opposed to a moderator or admin - with regard to epicyon as an IMC publishing tool? Obviously here, I am focussing on providing tools for IMC's specifically. How much are we initially focussing on IMC's or other use-cases for the test rollout? Single logins are being worked on in the ActivityPub / OpenID communities I believe - so we'll just have to wait and see there. ### Regarding Source Looking at [ActivityPub Objects](https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#obj), it appears that we can add extra "context". If something already doesn't exist for this, perhaps we start using and encourage the use of an "Original Source", such that no matter what any one adds (tags, etc) through the pipeline, there is always a direct link back to the source, without it having to be in any "message" text.

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hamishcampbell commented

2020-10-24 12:33:05 +00:00

yep, the whole what is an activertypub acter needs thinking - am coming to the conclusion that as a group news site the site itself is the activertypubacter. Then what are the user accounts?

Hard to clearly define this without deciding what the activertypub actor is - is it the user or the site, am sliding to the site as the actor. INTERESTED in other views on this?

Is this a social media site or a collective news site - the IMC is the second.

Yep would make the fedivers make more sense and fab for outreach.

source - interesting might be the place for the long tail of metadata that follows the "media objects" as they flow about.

yep, the whole what is an activertypub acter needs thinking - am coming to the conclusion that as a group news site the site itself is the activertypubacter. Then what are the user accounts? Hard to clearly define this without deciding what the activertypub actor is - is it the user or the site, am sliding to the site as the actor. INTERESTED in other views on this? Is this a social media site or a collective news site - the IMC is the second. Yep would make the fedivers make more sense and fab for outreach. source - interesting might be the place for the long tail of metadata that follows the "media objects" as they flow about.

mj-saunders commented

2020-10-24 20:01:05 +00:00

The Actor

My personal view I think was always that the site was the actor - without really thinking about it.

That feels more natural to me.

In which case I see the actor as the collective news site, run/managed by an IMC.

Who/what gets followed

People on all kinds of fediverse sites might generally follow the IMC (the 'news' user if I'm correct), rather than a single user of the IMC.

I suppose people could follow a single "user" directly (e.g. specific journalist or photographer) - don't see why not.

Other IMC's however would simply follow the 'news' user and can then filter content based on tag, author, etc.

Individuals could also do this - subscribe to the RSS feed for instance, and filter the work of a specific journalist they like, while not totally excluding other content.

Does that make any sense?

Admin, Mod, User

I'm starting to see the following - with regard to an IMC being the target use-case.

Type	Description
Admin	Editor(s) - can be more than one
Mod	Core decision makers - may be same as "Admin" list (particularly in small team) - may also include some or all "Users" (particularly in small team)
User	Journalist, Photographer, other ?

### The Actor My personal view I think was always that the site was the actor - without really thinking about it. That feels more natural to me. In which case I see the actor as the collective news site, run/managed by an IMC. ### Who/what gets followed People on all kinds of fediverse sites might generally follow the IMC (the 'news' user if I'm correct), rather than a single user of the IMC. I suppose people could follow a single "user" directly (e.g. specific journalist or photographer) - don't see why not. Other IMC's however would simply follow the 'news' user and can then filter content based on tag, author, etc. Individuals could also do this - subscribe to the RSS feed for instance, and filter the work of a specific journalist they like, while not totally excluding other content. Does that make any sense? ### Admin, Mod, User I'm starting to see the following - with regard to an IMC being the target use-case. Type |Description :---------|:----------------------------- **Admin** |Editor(s) - can be more than one **Mod** |Core decision makers<br />- may be same as "Admin" list (particularly in small team)<br />- may also include some or all "Users" (particularly in small team) **User** |Journalist, Photographer, other ?

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